Annihilation Vs. Eternal Conscience Torment in AD70

by Brad Baker

July 10th 2022

1 I’ve been beginning to see how some people will look at things some of these old time Prophets were speaking of what would happen to Israel in their captivity in Babylon and try to make them fit into a future end time event, not realizing those scriptures were fulfilled 500 years before Christ came. 2 So there is no way those scriptures can be considered for our future or even in AD70. 3 Everything other than that can only be targeted on AD70 with nothing left to fulfilled. 4 One big mystery that seems to be unsolved is what ever happened to Satan as an example of how what was said about him could be taken from any point in time and from what he was cast away from. 5 Our main source should be from what Jesus and the Apostles said because the past was behind them. 6 Our future has no prophecies to consider other than the examples from the past to watch out for because right now Jesus Christ rules the nations with a rod of iron as King of kings and Lord of lords. 7 Satan was stripped of his power from the Earth and was cast out of the Earth in AD70 to the Lake of Fire or also known as the Under Earth where he is king over the Kingdom of Darkness. 8 He was once booted out of Heaven because there was no place for him there and was cast to the Earth but he lost domain over the Earth as well in AD70. 9 When Jesus was lead into the wilderness we can see how Satan tempted Jesus with power over the nations if He would bow down to Satan. 10 Revelation 12 speaks of satan going after the woman and her Offspring as coming out as a flood, which could be taken from the Under Earth or Lake of Fire as I see it because a flood is water and water comes from below the surface of the Earth. 11This appears to be happening after the bride and Groom are married and have Spiritual Offspring which means it’s happening in the New Heaven & Earth Age of forever.

Revelation 12: 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 20: 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

12 Though I do not believe that Satan no longer is dwelling the heavenly places or roaming the Earth anymore after AD70. 13 But if Satan was vaporized into smoke in the Lake of Fire then no one should have any problems with truth, righteousness, Gospel of Peace, Faith, Salvation and the Word of God. And being able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 If Satan no longer exist we would not need to worry about faith and having the five fold ministry of apostles Pastors, Teachers, Prophets, evangelists till we all come to the unity of the faith. 15 Those there are Preterist Churches that have Pastors and Teachers. 16 Why not just have Ministers of God’s Word and pay them for being worthy of double honour instead and call it Fellowship of the Feast of Tabernacles Fulfilled or something like that with a new name for a new Age.

The Whole Armour of God

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armour of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints.

17 I understand why most Preterist believe Satan was vaporized in AD70 but that was something that never sat right with me. 18 Back in 2004 when I became a Full Preterist it stunned me when I heard Don Preston saying that and all my Preterist friends back it up with their explanations and I heard them all. 19 Everything to mental health issues to the evil intent within mankind and I agree that there are those issues but not to the point to where they take Satan to going AWOL and getting off Scott free. 120 I thought that Satan was just cast off the Earth and could not rule over the nations anymore like he use to through the religious and political systems at the time. 21 Jesus Christ breaks the nations to pieces like a potter to clay or as Daniel saw it in Dan. 2:44-4

22 We should be able to see how Satan has made war with those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ during the last 2000 years, and how the Earth has helped us as well as Immanuel formerly know as Jesus Christ breaking to pieces with a rod of iron the nations that go against Him. 23 The Rome fell in AD475 and how the The Roman Catholic Church took over is a prime example of how Satan influenced deception through a world power by means of working in the Under Earth with an image of Jesus Christ from the first century ruling in a deceptive way. 24 Immanuel formerly known as Jesus Christ is not ruling like the Lamb being lead to the slaughter. 25 He is the Lion of the Tribe of Judah who is ruling over the nations now in the New Heaven & Earth with a rod of iron and the Pope is not His representative. 26 This goes to show how deceptive Satan is setting someone up to represent Jesus Christ. 27 Satan even used Protestants as a house divided against its self with the Church of Rome to further deceive the nations I liken them to the False Prophet who was cast into the Lake of Fire alive in order to be at war with those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 28 Yet through in these times of darkness Immanuel who is God with Us was ruling over the denominations with a rod of iron and breaking them into pieces with over 30,000 different pieces of denominations throughout the world. 29 All of them are confused as the people were in the Tower of Babel. 30 It has not been until just recently the Kingdom of Heaven has broken through to a few who seek for the truth with Preterism in many degrees. 31 And now have the power of Pentecost Latter rain to go forth in a way we never have seen before if other embrace it. 32 Otherwise the war Satan is bring to us continues and many will remain in Outer Darkness for longer than what would be necessary. 33 If people would only receive the truth concerning their eschatological views before we lose it all by grieving the Holy Spirit. 34 This is what is holding things up and why the Transcended Full Preterist New Heaven & Earth eschatology is so important. 35 Immanuel formerly known as Jesus Christ is continuing to rule with a rod of iron by breaking through the deception Satan has brought in his warfare against those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. 36 We can not progress quickly if we do not know we still have an enemy trying to defeat us, it will be more like a turtles pace. 37 So we must become wiser in order to slow down Satan’s grip on mankind in order to defeat and slow down his warfare on us before we have to resort to doing it like Joshua, King David and the Holy Crusaders did as well.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

38 We can learn a lot from what Jesus experienced after He was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

1 Jesus show us that we can not live by food alone we need His Word for our Spiritual life.

2 We are not suppose to act like an Angel who can appear, disappear and fly through the air, or appear in other forms until we Physical die and get an Immoral Spirited Being body before we can start jumping off of a building like the pinnacle of the temple.

3 We can see that Satan actual had all the kingdoms of the world and their glory or else he could not have tempted Jesus with all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Jesus knew that He was going to inherit all the kingdoms of the world and their glory if He was to be obedient to God’s will and Satan would be crushed under His feet and cast into the Lake of Fire.

39 Jesus said that the Devil was the father of lies. If Satan or the Devil vaporized does that mean all lies were vaporized as well or at least to say did someone else become the father of all lies.

John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

40 Jesus was the Lamb of God who shed His blood for the world but He rose up from the dead and Ascended into Heaven He transformed into a Lion and rules as the King of kings and Lord of lords. 40 He rules over the Kingdom of Heaven. He rules over the Nations of the Earth. 42 He rules over the Kingdom of Darkness where Satan is their king. 43 No one tell Him what to do or when to do it because He is the Lord over all whether anyone likes or not, or believes it or not. 44 It doesn’t matter because He inherited it and no one can take it away, He has it forever and ever without an end. 45 The only problem is that there are so many sheep who could be as lions out there who will never step up as what an overcomer should be and help out ruling over the nation with Christ with a rod of iron.

Psalm 2:7 “I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.

9 You shall break them with a rod of iron;
You shall dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ ”

Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

Here is something Charles Meek had to say on this:


“The God of peace will SOON crush Satan under your feet.” (Romans 16:20)

“But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that HIS TIME IS SHORT.” (Revelation 12:12)

Regarding Satan and his defeat, here is a snippet from my book CHRISTIAN HOPE THROUGH FULFILLED PROPEHCY:

47 “The ending chapters of Revelation describe a series of events that are consummated together: the new heaven/new earth and New Jerusalem (which are the New Covenant church order), the dissolution of hades, the final defeat of death and Satan, and the Parousia—marking the beginning of the established and victorious eternal reign of Christ. Satan was LIMITED at the First Advent of Jesus, which Jesus proved by casting out demons (Matthew 12:28; Luke 11:17-20; Revelation 20:2). Satan was then CRUSHED at the Second Coming (Romans 16:20; Revelation 11:15; 20:10). The message of the New Testament, if you believe the Bible, is that Satan was ABSOLUTELY DEFEATED in the life, death, resurrection, ascension, and then finally at the Parousia of Jesus Christ (John 16:11; Colossians 2:15; Hebrews 2:14-15). The reader might want to take the time to revisit these passages. Christ reigns victorious. . . .

48 The crushing of Satan is confirmed by over 30 passages in the book of Revelation that definitely tie its fulfillment to the events surrounding the Jewish-Roman war in AD 66-70—including the destruction of the temple and its associated rituals, as well as the fulfillment of all prophecy per Jesus (Luke 21:20-22, 32; Revelation 1:1-3; 22:12-20). It is difficult to comprehend that a Christian would deny that Christ has already been victorious, and would deny that He reigns today, as many premillennialists do.

49 Some believe that Satan is still alive and may wield some power even today—that he tempts us and is able to blind the minds of some (2 Corinthians 4:4)—presumably those who are weak or not among the elect. But if Satan still exists today, he has no real spiritual power over us now. He has been “cast out” (John 12:31); he has “lost authority” over us (Colossians 1:13); he cannot “touch” a Christian (1 John 5:18). It seems more biblically correct to believe that we are tempted by our own desires rather than by Satan, per James 1:12-15. (Even in Bible times, it was not normative to be tempted by Satan. We remember that Jesus taught that it is what is on the inside of us that defiles us per Mark 7:14-23.)”

50 Well said and I agree with you. You even allowed for the possibility of Satan existing today and the reason I believe he does is in Revelation 12:17 where he is seen going after the woman who was the Bride of Christ going after the Spiritual Offspring from the Under Earth while all that you said apply to the power and strength the Offspring have over Satan.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

51 Here is a list of scriptures that I could find on Satan in an order to how I see them applying chronologically to the best of my knowledge, starting with Satan falling from Heaven down to the Earth then ending in the Lake of Fire.

The Fall of Lucifer

52 Isaiah 14:12 

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!


For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;


I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’


Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.


“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,


Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’


“All the kings of the nations,
All of them, sleep in glory,
Everyone in his own house;


But you are cast out of your grave
Like an abominable branch,
Like the garment of those who are slain,
Thrust through with a sword,
Who go down to the stones of the pit,
Like a corpse trodden underfoot.


You will not be joined with them in burial,
Because you have destroyed your land
And slain your people.

The Serpent in the Garden of Eden:

53 Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”

2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’ ”

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

54 Genesis 3:13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life.


And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

Satan Roaming on the Earth

55 Job 1:6-8 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. 7 And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”

So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”

56 I believe that Job lived before the Noah’s flood because it mentions the Sons of God here in the book of Job and the Sons of God were destroyed in the flood. 57 Some were giants but I think they were created like Adam was created but afterwards and none of them knew God like Adam did.

58 Job 38:4“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding.

Who determined its measurements?
Surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?

To what were its foundations fastened?
Or who laid its cornerstone,

When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

The Wickedness and Judgment of Man:

Genesis 6:1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

59 Matthew 4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:

‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’


‘In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ”

7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ”

8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him.

Prince of the Air:

60 Ephesians 2: in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Satan Thrown Out of Heaven:

61 Revelation 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satanic Rebellion Crushed:

62 Revelation 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Annihilation Vs Torment Forever

63 I believe eternal is forever without end for both Life and damnation. 64 Revelation 20:10 says the Devil, Beast and False Prophet are tormented forever so that means they never get annihilated. 65 Most who have the CBV also believe Satan was annihilated in AD70 as well as anyone who was casted into the Lake of Fire. 66 I believe Satan or the Devil and his Angels will never be annihilated and will always be able to influence people alive here on Earth through the Spiritual realm of evil Spirits. 67 If you don’t believe that you are game for anything. 68 I believe Satan was created as an Angel who fell from the Kingdom of Heaven to the Earth before Adam and Eve were created, then to the Lake of Fire in AD70. 69 Because Satan or the Devil and his Angels are a Spirited beings therefore not human they can not be annihilated but they will stay in the Lake of Fire forever and ever without end in Eternal Condemnation and not be able to repent.

70 The same greek word for eternal (αἰώνιον) in Matt 25:46 is used for eternal damnation and eternal life.  If eternal does not mean forever, then that means believers will neither inherit eternal life forever when both either go away to eternal punishment, or the righteous to eternal life.  

71 I definitely believe in eternal life is forever therefore conscience torment is forever, if not our hope would be in vain for eternal Life.

72 We may not know all the answers but I’m sure we will find them in the afterlife but who is willing to take a chance here on Earth and find out if they were wrong by assuming forever is not forever is true.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

1 Corinthians 3:13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

78 I understand 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 to be a believers works that do not measure up being refined by the consuming fire. 79 A non believers works would also be burned up but the conscience known as the Spirit would be tormented in the Lake of Fire and it would be a Spiritual death known as the second death for their soul but not an annihilation of their Spirit which is part of the soul that connects with God.

80 God could have chosen to annihilate the Devil and his Angels but instead God prepared a place for them and those who are judged for eternal condemnation.

Matthew 25:41“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

81 This verses from Malachi seems to be only speaking of the Judgment in AD70 or would it apply to trample the works of the wicked in the Lake of Fire when connecting with the rest of the scriptures.

Malachi 4:3 You shall trample the wicked,
For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,
Says the Lord of hosts.

82 Matthew 10:28 is an interesting text, Ed Stevens says: “Quote” Jesus was preparing his disciples for the persecution and tribulation that was about to come upon them in that generation as they preached the gospel all over the Diaspora and Roman Empire. 83 Jesus told them that they would be persecuted, and even killed for His namesake, but NOT to worry about it because all that their persecutors could do was to kill their bodies. 84 They could not touch their souls. Only God can do that. “End Quote”

85 People like to read beyond what the text is about including myself and Jesus would probably be shaking His head at how far we take it to the limits. 86 Now does that mean God can kill the physical body or Spiritual body that happened after physical death. 87 And does the soul that God can kill, is it the soul we have now in a physical body or the Spirit that returns to God after we physical die. 88 And was hell in Hades or the Lake of Fire..?

89 They were in Hades when Jesus said this, but tormented in the Lake of Fire after they were raised from the dead to face judgment first before going to the Lake of Fire were they were tormented and had no rest day or night according to Revelation 14:11

90 The lake of fire is everlasting cutting off, but literal torture of the body is not eternal conscience torment of the Spirit that returns to God. 91 The Spirit can not feel physical pain, but eternal condemnation of shame is a possibility. 92 If God could kill the body and soul in hell, He can do whatever He wills to do and put the conscience of the Spirit in eternal condemnation of shame. 93 The Spirit is part of the soul that connects with God who is all in all and everywhere. 94 He is a consuming fire that He baptizes with His presence in everyone. where they are from being cut off to enter Heaven where the Tree of Life is and probably die a second Spiritual death in the Lake of Fire. 95 All I know for sure is God can do whatever He wills to do and is not bound by my interpretations of His word. 96 Who am I that I should rise above God and tell others it’s my way or the highway like Satan did which got Him booted out of Heaven for the sake of his own pride.

Joel 2:28 “And it shall come to pass afterward
That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions.

Philippians 2:10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,


97 The death Adam was to die was both a Spiritual and a physical death. God provided a substitute animal the day Adam and Eve sinned and covered them with its skin. 98 This was an act of God’s grace and mercy. 99 Notice here that God did not say Adam would not die physical if he never sinned but it was wheresoever day it was he would die. 100 Many people believed this meant that Adam would never physical die but that is not what it says. 

Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil—of it ye shall not eat, but in whatsoever day ye eat of it, ye shall surely die.

101 If Adam was to have never died if he never had sinned he would have never been able to enter Heaven where flesh and blood can not enter. 102 If Adam physical death at the end of his years was what God meant then that would also mean that in the resurrection Everyone would have had a physical body which is not how it happened. 103 Paul clearly says that the resurrected body was a Spiritual body in 1 Corinthians 15:44-45.

104 Therefore when we connect all the dots from scripture it boils down to this. In the hereafter everyone post AD70 is raised with a Spiritual body. 105 Some will be immortal and other will be mortal because after judgment the Spiritual body and soul can be destroyed but the Spirit or conscience that connects with God and returns to God at physical death is never destroyed. 106 So this is what was to be tormented forever in the Lake of Fire. 107 With the soul destroyed repentance is impossible for what Universalist would say when the unjust repent after they are in the Lake of Fire and get a free card out of the Lake of Fire. 108 The soul is the mind, will and the emotions therefore no emotional pain. 109 Annihilationalist say everything gets annihilated, while Universalist say only dead works controlled by the soul get annihilated while the Spirit is saved, but both of these views are not seeing the big picture completely. 110 The unjust lose their Spiritual body and soul in the Lake of Fire while their Spirit consciousness is tormented forever as the scriptures and Holy Spirit guide us to believe. 111 Otherwise we have to rule out both to fit a view that is not seeing the big picture after connecting all the dots that hermeneutics will show us if we have an open heart and mind to receive it.

Matthew 10:28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Revelation 14:11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”


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