Did Apostle John Miss out on the Second Coming of the Lord in AD70

by Brad Baker

November 11/2022

1 From what we are told when you do a Goggle search on Apostle John, it will tell you John lived way beyond the Coming of the Lord and died in AD99. 2 If that is the truth then it creates a big problem for Preterist and the whole Bible as well and if you believe that then you might also believe that Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote there Gospels between AD 70 to 110 long after they were martyred according to what Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia says. 3 We can not take what Wikipedia or anything that others have said about the dating of when people from the first century died or when they wrote the things that would become known as scripture to be accurate especially with the death of the Apostle John and the writings of the four Gospels, epistles and the book of Revelation. 4 We should know for a fact by having just some form of common sense that not one of them would have lived well beyond the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70, nor would have anything from the New Testament been written after that time. 5 To take what Wikipedia says about what others believe can effect the outcome of interpreting the timing of events which would seriously effect the outcome of eschatology with the most important event of all, the second appearing of Christ in the clouds of Glory.


6 Ed Stevens wrote a good article about John, but here are some quotes from him:


Did Apostle John Miss Out On sitting on a throne judging the twelve tribes after Christ’s return (Matt. 19:28)…?

7 Did John Fail to Recognize that the Parousia Had Occurred? The idea that John lived through the Parousia, and knew that the Resurrection and Judgment had taken place, but failed to inform his post-70 disciples in Ephesus and nearby Hierapolis and Smyrna, creates a monstrous historical problem for Preterists. 

8 It makes us wonder whether John himself (the inspired writer of the book of Revelation) even realized that the Parousia had occurred!

9 If John the apostle was still around and saw no value in explaining or even mentioning the incredible fulfillments of his book of Revelation, why should we? 10 Was it because he didn’t understand the fulfillments, or was it simply because he did not see Christ at His Parousia, and consequently did not know that the Parousia had occurred? 11 If he didn’t see the Parousia, then he would not have understood the fulfillment, and would not have been able to claim or explain the fulfillment. 12 But is that an acceptable explanation for us preterists? 13 How many of us would be comfortable with that? I surely would not.

14 Is it even conceivable that the inspired Apostle John (who wrote the book of Revelation saying his return was imminent) would not even know about the occurrence of the Parousia afterwards? 15 In 1John 2:18, 28 and 3:2 he indicates that they would know it when Christ returned, and would see it happen, and would not shrink away from Him when He appeared, and would experience a bodily change when they saw Him. 16 Well, did they see and experience those things? 17 Or, did even John the apostle fail to “recognize the time of His visitation” the same way the Jews failed to recognize His first coming? 18 John was supposed to be sitting on a throne judging the twelve tribes after Christ’s return (Matt. 19:28), not meandering about the Ephesian countryside muttering gentle platitudes about “love one another” (as the Roman Catholics would have us believe). 19 There is something desperately wrong with that picture. 

20 If John remained on earth after AD 70, he would surely have recognized the fulfillments and said something about it. His silence is incriminating and discrediting – unless he was no longer on earth after AD 70.

21 I think we are now beginning to get an inkling of the enormity of this problem. End quote.


22 Jesus said that James and John would suffer death by drinking the cup which the Father had given Him. 23 Did Jesus know what He was talking about or was He not telling the truth and John would be alive and miss out on the rapture and meeting Him in the clouds at His second coming…?


John 18:11So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?” 12Then the detachment of troops and the captain and the officers of the Jews arrested Jesus and bound Him.

Mark 10:35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to Him, saying, “Teacher, we want You to do for us whatever we ask.”

36 And He said to them, “What do you want Me to do for you?”

37 They said to Him, “Grant us that we may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on Your left, in Your glory.”

38 But Jesus said to them, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?”

39 They said to Him, “We are able.”

So Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink the cup that I drink, and with the baptism I am baptized with you will be baptized; 40 but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared.”

24 Some would believe that John would have been alive at the coming of the Lord because of what Jesus said to Peter here:

John 21:20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”

22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”

25 However Jesus did not say said that John would be alive at His coming to Peter, he was in a sense just saying what is that to you IF John remained. In other words it was like saying mind your own business.

26 HOW THE APOSTLES DIED:

1. Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia, killed by a sword wound.
2. Mark died in Alexandria, Egypt, after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.
3. Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous preaching to the lost.
4. John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution In Rome. However, he was miraculously delivered From death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison Island of Patmos. Ed Stevens wrote an article called: Did John Live Beyond AD 70? In his article Ed states this:
   
   Notice what PAPIAS says here about the death of John:

Pap. 5:5 Papias says in his second book that John the Theologian and James his brother were killed by Jews.

Pap. 6:3 For Papias, the bishop of Hierapolis, who had seen him with his own eyes,

claims in the second book of the Sayings of the Lord that John was killed by Jews, thus

clearly fulfilling, together with his brother, Christ’s prophecy concerning them and their

own confession and agreement about this.

Pap. 6:4 For when the Lord said to them, “Are you able to drink the cup that I

drink?” and they eagerly assented and agreed, he said: “You will drink my cup and

will be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized.”

Pap. 6:5 And this is to be expected, for it is impossible for God to lie.

Pap. 6:6 Moreover the encyclopedic Origen also affirms in his interpretation of the

Gospel according to Matthew that John was martyred, indicating that he had learned

this from the successors of the apostles.

Papias claimed that John was killed by the Jews, evidently at a time when they still had

the ability and opportunity to do so. This would point to the Neronic persecution (AD

64), until it was cut short by the outbreak of the Jewish revolt (AD 66). It would not

have been easy for them to do much against Christians after the war began, and

especially not after the war ended.

The Jews had no political or judicial power to kill anyone after AD 70. It clearly points to a

time before AD 70 when the Jews would have had the authority, opportunity, and means

by which to do it. The Neronic persecution fits that description well, since that is when

the Jews were in their most powerful position against the Christians.

As we look at the Biblical evidence in Matthew 20, Mark 10, and John 21, we will notice

that it points unambiguously toward the conclusion that Apostle John must have died in

the Neronic persecution before the Parousia.

5. Peter he was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross. According to church tradition it was because he told his tormentors that he felt unworthy to die In the same way that Jesus Christ had died.
6. James the leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ. When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller’s club. This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the temptation.
7. James the son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus Called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was beheaded at Jerusalem. The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial. Later the officer Walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian. Bartholomew also known as Nathaniel Was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey. Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.
8. Andrew was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: ‘I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.’ He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired.
9. Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the Sub-continent.
10. Jude was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.
11. Matthias The apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.
12. Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational Doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament. Perhaps this is a reminder to us that our sufferings here are indeed minor compared to the intense persecution and cold cruelty faced by the apostles and disciples during their times For the sake of the Faith. And you shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: But he that endures to the end shall be saved.

Conclusion:

Who John 21:20-23 was Really About John, Lazarus or Judas:

27 In order for what we see as Full Preterist to be true we have to considered the way and timing of John’s death. 28 If John lived past AD70 and was still alive on the Earth then he would have missed out on being in Heaven and sitting on a throne judging the nations with the other Apostles who were martyred. 29 We would also have to wonder why John did not mention any of the events which took place in AD70 with the complete destruction of Israel as a nation. 30 As it stand, not one piece of information from John were written or mention anything about it after AD70 when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed. 31 The silence alone says more than anything, and that John was not alive to see it happen, nor any others who would have been changed at the coming of the Lord had anything to say about it. 32 The logical conclusion would be that if John was a live at the coming of the Lord then he obviously missed out on meeting the Lord with all the saints in the air and if that was the case then everything else that was written about the end of the Age happening in the first century would not have been true. 33 That would mean everything that Jesus said that would take place in that generation, and everywhere where had been said, things must shortly take place, at hand, coming quickly, or to happen soon were all a lie, and that is where the Futurist and Partial Preterist views would be justified by come in and cover up on the lies that would have been with their version of deception. 34 We should know better than that and if we are to share with others the truth then we must fit our views into how the Word of God says it would have been instead of covering up for things that the Word of God did not say.


35 My conclusion would be that John did miss out on being alive at the coming of the Lord but that he did not miss out on being there in Heaven resurrected as a martyr before the rest of the dead in Christ and sat on a throne on judgment day according to what Jesus said.

36 About who the Disciple was that leaned on Jesus at the supper that Jesus loved in John 21. 37  I doubt John was writing about himself, and neither did John or Lazarus betray Jesus. 38 The only other candidates would be Judas, but Judas hung himself before John 21, but John who wrote this could have been writing it in a circular style and not liner so it could have been an event John was writing about that happened before Judas hung himself.


39 This is great news for Preterist and presents a good case about what Ed Stevens was saying about it not being about John being alive at the coming of the Lord, and to be alive on Earth beyond the time the first century Saints were changed into Spiritual bodies and went into Heaven.

About how Lazarus:

Some believe it was Lazarus who Peter was talking about in John 21 but all I can find on Lazarus is the he sat at the table with Him at a supper.

John 11:5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus.

John 12:2 There they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with Him.

About Judas:

40 Look at this and see what you think that maybe the Apostle John the writer was going back in time with circular writing and rewriting from John 13 while writing this part of John 21:20-23 when Judas was still alive so it was about Judas and not John or Lazarus.

41 If you believe you have it all sealed up with liner style thinking or recalling something John did not mention in John 13 that he could have brought out after Jesus finished His talk to Peter about following Him in John 21. 42 Then you definitely have a closed boxed in mind and will most likely disagree what I am about to show here in a circular style of writing or recalling something that was missed out on previously.


43 Lets read John 13 as if John had recalled in John 21 there instead of thinking it was John Peter was taking let focus on Judas as the most likely candidate.


John 13:21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me.” 22 Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke.

23 Now there was leaning on Jesus’ bosom one of His disciples, whom Jesus loved. 24 Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke.

25 Then, leaning back on Jesus’ breast, he said to Him, “Lord, who is it?”

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon.


44 Then shortly after the supper this conversation between Jesus and Peter happens and notice the main point of this conversation was in following Jesus and who would die.

John 13:36 Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, where are You going?”

Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward.”

37 Peter said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake.”

38 Jesus answered him, “Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times.

45 Now we jump ahead to after Judas hung himself and after Jesus rose from the dead just before He Ascended into Heaven.


John 21:17Jesus said to him, “Feed My sheep. 18 Most assuredly, I say to you, when you were younger, you girded yourself and walked where you wished; but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will gird you and carry you where you do not wish.” 19 This He spoke, signifying by what death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, “Follow Me.”


46 This could have triggered a memory in John to recall what was said after the supper in John 13 when Peter was wondering about whether Judas would remain to when Jesus would return at His coming but brings it out in John 21 after they knew Judas hung himself.


20 Then Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following, who also had leaned on His breast at the supper, and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” 21 Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, “But Lord, what about this man?”

22 Jesus said to him, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me.”

23 Then this saying went out among the brethren that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, “If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?”


47 Peter and Jesus were talking about Judas at the time when John wrote chapter 13 and Judas was just about to betray Jesus would it not make sense that Peter was concerned about whether Judas would remain as a disciple, who would have followed Jesus until Jesus would return, but was about to betray Him. 48 John was writing John 21 after they knew Judas died but at the time in John 13 Judas was still alive. 49 And Peter saw him and asked Jesus what about this man “Judas” but knowing in John 21 at the time in John 13 that Jesus said I never said “Judas” would not die, but, “If I will that he “Judas” remain till I come, what is that to you?”

The whole point was to Peter, when Jesus said to him, “If I will that he “Judas” remain till I come, what is that to you? You “Peter” follow Me.”

50 I think John added that into John 21 “not saying he did, but if he did” because it would have been a significant piece of a conversation that could have taken place in John 13 that John did not mention there and was an important part of history that deserves to be recorded if that is what happened. 51 That’s all I’m saying is that it is possible that is what John could have meant, if he was recalling something. 52 It seems to fit better there, rather than singling John out of it to make it look like John would have been still alive at the coming of the Lord, when Jesus clearly said that would all drink the same cup and die as martyrs for following Him. 53 Ed Stevens clearly explained how Papias recalled the Jews killing John in AD64 and what Jesus said about all of the disciples drinking from the same cup of being martyrs where Jesus did not signal out John as a exception as so many would have you believe.