70 Bull Sacrificed for the 70 Nations from Noah “Whole Creation” Romans 8:20-22

December 2nd 2024

Intro: According to Numbers 29:12-34 describes the sacrifices involved in the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles, called in Hebrew, the Feast of Sukkot (“Booths”). Included in those sacrifices were 70 bulls, a number that far exceeds any other Israelites festival. Scholars have taken note of the number and speculated that it has some relationship to the number of the sons of God allotted to the nations in the judgment at Babel (Deut 32:8-9; cp. Genesis 10’s 70 nations).

English Standard Version

Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. 9 But the Lord’s portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

Rabbi Elazar, “Quote” The Ethical legacy of Sukkot: Improving the Lives of All by Rabbi Alex Weissman. These 70 bulls correspond to the 70 nations of the world; when the Jewish people offered the bulls as sacrifices, we did so as a means to atone for the sins of the rest of the world. In the minds of the rabbis, they saw the Temple as providing a unique channel to God. This concept of the 70 nations that represent the entire world comes from Genesis 10, which includes a long list of the descendants of Noah after the flood — the lineage of the peoples who repopulated the earth after mass destruction.

“End Quote”

Acts 17:28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’

New King James Version

Romans 8:1919 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labours with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

1 I believe that all of creation became a new creation in AD70 in a similar way that the first century Church became a new creation. 2 In the four verse below we can see that the first century Church served as a type for the antitype of all creation being made new as well as being delivered from the power of darkness.

3 The first century saints were forerunners for experiencing the new creation with all things made new while the rest of the world had to wait to be delivered from the Age of Corruption according to Romans 8:20-21 and be restored back to like it was in the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned.

First Century:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Colossians 1:13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Age to Come:

Revelation 21:5Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

Romans 8:20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Who Are the Sons of God…?

4 Determining who the Sons of God were and who they are now has a great effect on how eschatology it is be interpreted. 5 Everything consummates at the fulfillment of Romans 8:18-23 and Daniel 9:27. 6 Jesus said that when they saw ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place that the end would come in Matthew 24:14-15. 7 Jesus also said all the things that the Prophets spoke of would be soon fulfilled with the signs He spoke of in Luke 21:20-22, which all came to past in AD70. 8 Some say Daniel’s 70 Weeks ended in AD33 but that does not allow for all the things spoken of in Daniel 9:24-27 to be fulfilled. 9 While AD70 does allow them to be fulfilled with the power of the Holy people after the Great Tribulation of 3.5 years being shattered according to Daniel 12:7; and their Temple being destroyed which brought the Age to come to begin with the New Heaven and Earth. 10 Romans 8:19 mentions the manifestation of the Sons of God that all of creation was eagerly waiting for to happen, so this topic is very important to get it right. 11 Otherwise mankind will dwell in Outer Darkness not being able to see the truth of how God sees humanity from His perspective. 12 We truly have an awesome God who loves us, it’s just that most never see it and yet God allows us to reject the truth and suffer the consequences for it. 13 For it is in this hope of Romans 8:18-25 that we are saved.

14 Many become delusional by thinking that if everyone becomes a child of God means everyone get a free pass into the Kingdom of Heaven but this is not the case. 15 It just means everyone starts life like the Prodigal Son in Luke 15 did before he turned his back on his Father and Spiritually died. 16 The Prodigal Son started life as a family member who was alive and in right standing with his Father. He decided to turn his back on him and left but eventually came back and repented. 17 Had he not done that he would have never known how much his Father loved him and would have died in his sin and have been separated from him never truly knowing him.

Doctrine of the Divine Council’s Fallacies:

18 Andy Hauter a brother who is either a Partial Preterist or Futurist ask me if I knew who the Sons of God because my view of AD70 who I thought they were was false according to him. 19 I found it rather odd that Andy’s futurist view of who he believes that the Sons of God were angels who had Spiritual bodies and died like men. 20 Yet he also believes he will have a resurrected physical body for the afterlife, and not a Spiritual body like the sons of God that he believes did have. 21 In 1 Corinthians 15:44-45 Paul said those resurrected from the dead would have a Spiritual body that would also be a same redemptive body that they were eagerly waiting for according to Romans 8:23.

22 After reading Andy’s view which is also the same view of mainline Christianity of the Sons of God being Spiritual children who some how were sent to the Earth to breed with woman and produce offspring that were extremely strong and then died like men. 23 I realize that this view has been the accepted view within Christianity ever since I can remember going back to 1974. 24 That view never sat right with me so I will take the same liberty to describe my view now as I see it in a more realistic way and for the Sons of God to be actual men created by God like God created Adam, from the dust of the Earth. 25 Why should those with a futuristic view get the free pass to interpret who the Sons of God were and call all other views false; so in these scriptures below they will show you how man became a god or like God and that the other gods people bowed down to were not gods but gods were men according to what Jesus said what was written according to their law.

Jeremiah 2:11Has a nation changed its gods,
Which are not gods?
But My people have changed their Glory
For what does not profit.

Isaiah 37:18 Truly, Lord, the kings of Assyria have laid waste all the nations and their lands, 19 and have cast their gods into the fire; for they were not gods, but the work of men’s hands—wood and stone. Therefore they destroyed them. 20 Now therefore, O Lord our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the Lord, You alone.”

Genesis 3:5 For God knows that on the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3:5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out with his hand, and take fruit also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

Deuteronomy 32:39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;

Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

26 Jesus was God manifested in the flesh and was the only Begotten Son of God and this is what was said about that:

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

And again,

“I will be a Father to Him
And He will be a Son to Me”? NKJV

27 Here is what I see the scripture saying who the Sons of God were and I do not see them as the Angels in Heaven send to breed with human woman and die like men.

Sons of God as other humans God created from the Earth like He did Adam after the 7th day of rest.
Sons of God as being children of Israel
Sons of God as being those lead by the Holy Spirit in the first century
Sons of God included the whole human race after the regeneration or restoration of all things in AD70 with Jesus Christ as our Spiritual Everlasting Father

28 I cover the original creation more in-depth in my article called Biblical Creation Worldview “BCW” and said that I have not settled on this position yet, but if I see others take a hold on it I would most likely take a stronger position on it with confirmation from others.

29 When Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible he left some gaps wide open for the speculation of our imaginations to explore. 30 So I attempt to assume what could have happened because the door was open for unanswered questions like who did Cain marry, and who were the people that would have killed Cain for murdering his brother Able if God did not put a mark on Cain.

31 My main focus here is on who the Sons of God were according to Romans 8:19 with the adoption of the manifestation of the Sons of God of AD70. 32 And the manifested Sons of God ever since who were born as the Spiritual Offspring of the Bride and Groom in the regeneration and restoration of all things as children of the resurrection.

33 According to how Andy Hauter would see it Deuteronomy 32:8 according to the NASB translation says the Sons of Israel as the Sons of God and the Septuagint Bible says angels of God as the Sons of God. Yet in Genesis 6:5 God calls the Sons of God men. 34 Here are three different version all using different names, either they were sons of God, angels of God or sons of Israel. 35 Do we get to pick and choose what they were or is it a one way street with one of the three, or do we have to rightly divide the word of truth and compare it with the context of all scriptures regarding who the Sons of God were or were not. 36 I see them as all human beings, angels are angels and men are men, most men were born from a woman but the first generation of men could have been created like Adam was and eventually that ended as the Earth stopped producing them as God stopped creating them.

37 There are three different versions that either says sons of God, sons of Israel or the Angels of God all for the same passage of Deuteronomy 32:8; but the whole context of this chapter seems to target Israel’s relationship to God and there was no foreign god with him; and they sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know.

New American Standard Bible

Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance, When He separated the sons of mankind, He set the boundaries of the peoples According to the number of the sons of Israel.

The Septuagint Bible

Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.

38 Andy uses the English Standard Version that says sons of God, but the New American Standard Bible has been classified as the most accurate Bible but some reject it because of this topic on who God’s divine counsel and who the sons of God were.

English Standard Version

DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

39 Now in the case of Genesis 19:1 where the two angels came to Sodom, these angels appeared as men as verse 8 says they were: See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.” 40 This does not means they were Sons of God and it was not the angels who were Homosexuals that Andy will say: committed fornication and followed unnatural lusts.

41 Lot was trying to prevent the men of the town from trying to sexually harass the two angels who came to warn him to get out of Sodom because God was going to destroy it, and offered his daughters instead of offending the two Angels from God.

42 An angel is a spiritual being believed to act as an, agent, or messenger of God, in a way that is based on what is traditionally done or believed represented in human form with wings and a long robe. 43 Angels can physically appear or disappear, they can appear in other forms or they can appear in human form. 44 Jesus said in the regeneration in the Age to come they would be like the Angels. 45 He was referring to the afterlife when we would be in our Spiritual body that was the redemptive body the saints were eagerly waiting for according to Romans 8:23.

46 Jude 6 does not refer to Sodom and Gomorrah, but to the Devil and his Angels who rebelled against God in Heaven therefore they had to go to the place God prepared for them as it says: And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

47 Andy Hauter asked me if I knew who the sons of God were, and told me he knows who they were. 48 I’ll let you read his story with who he thinks he knows who the sons of God were; as he describes the sons of God as God’s family of children in the heavens, not on earth who would die like men from Psalm 82:6, but from Genesis 3:22 and John 10:33 we can see those scriptures relating to men and notice how Psalms 82 says it in the Young’s Literal Translation here first.

Psalm 82:6 I — I have said, `Gods ye [are], And sons of the Most High — all of you, 7 But as man ye die, and as one of the heads ye fall,

Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”

Genesis 3:22Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

John 10:33The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’?

49 I found his definition the best one coming from a futurist perspective which is also the main view out there that I know of. 50 I don’t think Andy knew that I was aware of this view before but it was nice for him the write it out so I wouldn’t have to, you may agree with it but I don’t.

51 Andy Hauter says: “Quote”

In Job 38:4-7 we find

“Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? ….

when the morning stars were singing together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

52 When God laid the foundations of the earth, the “sons of God” were there, shouting for joy. 53 But who are the sons of God? Obviously, they aren’t humans. 54 This is before the creation of the world. 55 God had a spiritual family before the creation of the world. 56 Right from the start, God had company—other divine beings, the sons of God in the spiritual realm. 57 Like children of God on earth, He has children in the heavens.

58 We also see them in Ps 82

God has taken his place in the divine council;

in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: …

I said, “You are gods,

sons of the Most High, all of you;

nevertheless, like men you shall die,

and fall like any prince.”

59 In this case He is referring to the spiritual beings that have been disobedient. The ones who will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

60 And in Ps 89

Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,

your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!

For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?

Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,

a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones,

and awesome above all who are around him?

61 So we see in these 3 passages they explicitly contradict the notion of the sons of God as human. 62 These are God’s assembly in the heavens, not on earth. 63 The language is unmistakable.

64 So now that we’ve established who the sons of God are, let’s go back to Rom 8:19:

“For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.”

65 Since you believe “that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption” occurred in AD70, then you must be proclaiming the sons of God have been revealed to you?

66 Obviously, since you don’t even know who they are, they haven’t been revealed to you. 67 And since they haven’t been revealed to you, your view that AD70 as the consummation of all future prophecies is a false one.

68 God’s rule on earth is progressing and advancing against unseen powers of darkness and humanity enslaved to those powers. 69 The kingdom of God has a clear goal: the reclamation of the nations (see the verses earlier in this thread) and a restoration on a global scale. 70 The fulfillment of God’s original intention of having a family council of both divine and human kind will be united on that final day of judgment. 71 We are already in God’s kingdom, but we have not reached that consummation day where “creation will be set free from its bondage to corruption”. We still “wait eagerly for the redemption of our bodies” Rom 8:23

72 whereas Gen 6:1-4 is weird, it doesn’t say sons of God are men. 73 Let scripture interpret scripture, especially using easier to understand scripture with more difficult.

74 Look at all of the Old Testament references to “sons of God.”

DEUTERONOMY 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.

75 This is the story of Babel, where Gods divides humanity in nations and assigns each one of His divine beings.

JOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them. (NKJV)

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (NKJV)

JOB 38:4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (NKJV)

PSALM 29:1 O give the Lord you sons of God , give the Lord glory and power; 2 give the Lord the glory of his name. Adore the Lord in his holy court.

PSALM 89:5 The heavens proclaim your wonders, O Lord; the assembly of your holy ones proclaims your truth. 6 For who in the skies can compare with the Lord or who is like the Lord among the sons of God

76 As you can see, each reference above is to angels. 77 There are no instances in the Old Testament where the phrase “sons of God” refers to men.

78 Here’s Gen 6:1 from (Tanakh, the new Jewish Publication Society translation according to the traditional Hebrew text)

GENESIS 6:1 When men began to increase on earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the divine beings saw how beautiful the daughters of men were and took wives from among those that pleased them. 3 The Lord said, “My breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be one hundred and twenty years.”

79 It was then, and later too, that the Nephilim appeared on earth when the divine beings cohabited with the daughters of men, who bore them offspring. 80 They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.

81 Whereas this idea of angels mating with humans is unbelievable to us, this narrative was prevalent in the ancient near East and of course in Greek and Roman mythology.

82 This is also confirmed in the NT. Jude wrote of the fornication of the angels.

83 JUDE 6 Remember too the angels, how some of them were not content to keep the dominion given to them but abandoned their proper home; and God has reserved them for judgement on the great Day, bound beneath the darkness in everlasting chains. 7 Remember Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbouring towns; like the angels, they committed fornication and followed unnatural lusts; and they paid the penalty in eternal fire, an example for all to see.

84 In verse 7 he compares the sexual wickedness of men in Sodom, Gomorrah, to the sexual sin of the angels.

85 By their sexual immorality, these angels produced offspring which were strong and violent. 86 The concept of a race of giants which resulted from the union of gods and humans is virtually universal in the world’s early civilizations.

87 The original intent of the angels may have only been to satisfy their forbidden lust. 88 Yet the knowledge they brought with them and taught mankind caused society to develop at a rapid technological pace. 89 This societal development was not positive, and it gave rise to a very violent society, one in which the nephilim apparently played a large role. 90 God restrained the wicked angels that produced the nephilim in the Abyss, and cleansed the earth of them and the violence they brought with the great Flood.

“End Quote”

In the Beginning God Created Mankind they were Sons of God:

91 I would have say that I do not know who the Sons of God were but I have a belief of who they were based on scripture and filling in the gaps by hearing what the Spirit is saying. 92 Moses did not tell us everything there is to know about this topic in Genesis 6, but if we go back to Genesis 1 through 4 we can get a better idea of who they were. 93 I do not believe they were Angels or Spirited beings with only a Spiritual body that breed with humans and died like men as the mainline Christian view is.

94 Notice how God created all living creatures in Genesis 1 for an example of how God might have created mankind. 95 First it says let the Earth produce according to their kind, then it says God created them. 96 Before that in the waters it says let the waters produced according to their kind, but God create them also. 97 This is what I use as a rule for the first generation of mankind until men breed with woman and multiplied the Earth.

Genesis 1:24Then God said, “Let the earth produce living creatures according to their kind: livestock and crawling things and animals of the earth according to their kind”; and it was so. 25God made the animals of the earth according to their kind, and the livestock according to their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind; and God saw that it was good.

98 Was it any different for when it came to mankind other than God created mankind in His image. 99 Mankind consists of many different races and some were even giants. 100 Was Adam “the first man God created” the only man God created, or did God create more of mankind from the dust of the Earth according to their kind but all created in God’s image…?; Genesis 1:26 seems to be saying so, notice how “and let them rule” is used as meaning more than one man

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

101 Historical race concepts · Aryans · Semitic · Hamitic · African Negro · Khoikhoi · Melanesian · Negrito · Australoid.

102 Perhaps after the flood of Noah mankind developed differently according to the location they were in which formed the human race into different races, that was different than the way God original created them before mankind started breeding with women. 103 As mankind could have came out from the dust of the Earth, each location could of had the right kinds of elements in the dust that would help mankind survive in that location better than other locations.

104 Johann Friedrich Blumenbach’s classification, first proposed in 1779, was widely used in the 19th century, with many variations.

1 the Ethiopian/black race

2 the Caucasian race/white race

3 the Mongolian/yellow race

4 the American/red race

5 the Malayan/brown race

105 Who did Cain marry and where did the people who would be a threat to his life for killing his brother Able come from…? 106 Cain seemed to know God to some degree and Cain may have had an influenced on other people who God created from the dust of the Earth who were not born from a woman.

After Genesis 4:15So the Lord said to him, “Therefore whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be taken on him seven times as much.” And the Lord placed a mark on Cain, so that no one finding him would kill him. 16Then Cain left the presence of the Lord, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden. 17Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to Enoch; and Cain built a city, and named the city Enoch, after the name of his son.

107 Seth was born from Adam and Eve who definitely had an influenced to other people that began to call upon the name of the Lord. 108 Where did these people come from and could have God had divine counsel with the Sons of God who He created on Earth…?

Genesis 4;25Adam had relations with his wife again; and she gave birth to a son, and named him Seth, for, she said, “God has appointed me another child in place of Abel, because Cain killed him.” 26To Seth also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. Then people began to call upon the name of the Lord.

109 There could have been a time when the Sons of God created from the dust of the Earth called on the name of the Lord and this alone could have been the divine council that Psalms 82 was talking about. 110 But they took many wives for themselves who could have been their own daughters, instead of one woman for one man like Adam and Eve did.

Genesis 4:26 says men began to call on the name of the Lord. Chapter 5 is just about the genealogy of Adam then in Genesis 6:1-2 says that the Sons of God were men.

111 Notice how Satan was around the Sons of God according to Job 1:6 and 2:1 just like Satan was with Adam and Eve when tempting them to sin. 112 With the Sons of God, Satan lead them into being extremely violent so that God destroyed them in the flood of Noah.

JOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them. (NKJV)

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (NKJV)

113 There was a difference between the Sons of God and the sons of men. 114 The Sons of God would have not have earthly fathers because they were created from the dust of the Earth like Adam was.

The Corruption of Mankind

Genesis 6:1Now it came about, when mankind began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2that the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not remain with man forever, because he is also flesh; nevertheless his days shall be 120 years.” 4The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of mankind, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Genesis 6:5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

115 The Sons of God would have been there at the laying down of the foundations of the earth because they would have been the first generation of mankind created by God like God created Adam, from the dust of the Earth. 116 After a few generations they became a layer of the foundations of the Earth’s crust and over time other layers were built over them as previous generations were buried in the Earth.

JOB 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan also came among them. (NKJV)

JOB 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. (NKJV)

Ps 82

God has taken his place in the divine council;

in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: …

I said, “You are gods,

sons of the Most High, all of you;

nevertheless, like men you shall die,

and fall like any prince.”

117 The Sons of God in the past were human that did not get a special pass and died like men as Ps 82 says. 118 They didn’t escape physical death just because they were Sons of God. 119 Spirited beings in Heaven do not die like men as Andy Hauter says they did because the Angels would be immortal.

120 I realize that people have never thought about it that way before because they have heard from the traditional teachings from men. 121 They believed them instead by filling in the gaps Moses did not write about with their own imaginations. 122 Which is also what I have done but with a much different outcome trying to avoid the errors mainline Christianity has done in the past.

123 Andy Hauter said to me about the Sons of God: Obviously, since you don’t even know who they are, they haven’t been revealed to you. 124 And since they haven’t been revealed to you, your view that AD70 as the consummation of all future prophecies is a false one.

125 Yet Andy Hauter says that the Sons of God were Angels according to Hebrews 1:5, but it does not say that. 126 Futurist have to make everything that proves Full Preterism as the truth, by turned around to fit their narrative to discredit our views leaving nothing unchecked, and this one in Romans 8:18-25 would defeat Full Preterism if their view of the Sons of God was true. 127 Yet nothing could be further from the truth as this one subject. 128 Hebrews 1:5 proves the Sons of God were not Angels appearing as men, fathered by God that died like men.

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

“You are My Son,
Today I have fathered You”?

And again,

“I will be a Father to Him
And He will be a Son to Me”? NKJV

129 With the Sons of God as a type, this rule would apply to Romans 8:19 with the regeneration and restoration of all things in AD70 for the antitype of Spiritual Sons of God to all of mankind that would not inherit the death Adam brought to mankind. 130 A restoration back to like it was in the Garden of Eden before Adam sinned except with Jesus Christ as our Everlasting Father for all of mankind. 131 And to have a Spiritual body in the afterlife is our hope that we are saved by instead of looking forward to a resurrection like they did in the first century, we are the children of the resurrection instead who will not become disembodied souls in Hades but rather receive an immortal body for the afterlife if we are found worthy at the judgment seat of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Romans 8:19For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

Romans 8:24For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

The Regeneration Vs. Restoration of All Things:

132 The word restoration means to put back in to the original state – Acts 3:19-21. The time like it was in the beginning in the Garden of Eden.

133 What does regeneration mean…? A few other words to describe the word are: re-establish, reorganize, reassemble. in the sense of rejuvenate.

134 Regeneration is a form of upgrade from restoration. 135 If restoration means “to make something well again,” regeneration, for some authors, means “to make it better” than a (supposed) origin condition.

136 Regeneration in humans is the regrowth of lost tissues or organs in response to injury. 137 This is in contrast to wound healing, or partial regeneration, which involves closing up the injury site with some gradation of scar tissue. 138 Regeneration refers to a type of healing in which new growth completely restores portions of damaged tissue to their normal state. 139 The Tree of Life in Revelation 22 mentions the leaves for the healing of the nations must have something to do with the regeneration of creation.

140 Spiritually, it means that God brings a person to new life (that they are “born again”) from a previous state of separation from God.

Titus 3:5not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

141 Jesus spoke of the regeneration as in the Age to Come which matches up with:

Acts 3:21 21whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Matthew 19:28So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Joel 2:3 A fire devours before them,
And behind them a flame burns;
The land is like the Garden of Eden before them,
And behind them a desolate wilderness;
Surely nothing shall escape them.

Acts 15:16 ’After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up;

142 The Sheaf Wave of First Fruits was on the day after the weekly Sabbath during the Feast of Un-Leaven Bread so it was always on a Sunday. 143 It was also on the eighth day and eight means new beginnings. Friday was a preparation day for the Sabbath Day.

144 Fifty days after the Sheaf Wave of First Fruits the Feast of Pentecost began. Pentecost was a Jubilee that came about once a year.

145 The Day of Atonement was a yearly Jubilee where the sins of Israel as a nation were blotted out and put out of remembrance. 146 Every seven years there would be a whole year of rest. 147 Then after Seven X Seven years was the 50th year of Jubilee with a complete regeneration and restoration of all things. 148 The Feast of Tabernacles which soon followed after the Day of Atonement was an example of restored fellowship with God and others from the 70 nations “Whole Creation”, which began in a Garden of Eden like experience.

149 Romans 8:21 is the most important scripture in the Bible to me and it should be to you to, it says: because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 150 This sums up all what Jesus died for according to what Paul said in verse: 24 For we were saved in this hope.

151 It speaks of all of the creation waiting to be delivered from the bondage of corruption. 152 Not some of creation or part of it like for Israel only or the Church only or for humans only. 153 God has always had a worldview of the regeneration and restoration of all things so that we could have a Garden of Eden style of life before Adam sinned with the second Adam as our Spiritual Everlasting Father who is Jesus Christ.

154 Yet we rarely hear anyone mention this very important thing. 155 I think most of the futuristic have a better idea of what it means than Preterist. 156 At least for the futurist they’re expecting something far greater than what the times of what the first century Church had. 157 Yet for most Preterist, life has carried on the same except without the Old Covenant around.

158 In many ways the futurist sees God as being far greater than what Preterist have God to be. 159 The things that the futurist have wrong is that they expect no more physical death and pain, as well as a few other things like no possibility for anyone to sin.

160 We all need to re-evaluate what is meant by all things being made new could mean.

161 In Romans 8:22 Pauls said: For we know that the whole creation groans and labours with birth pangs together until now. 162 We know that Paul was not talking about the first fruits who had the Spirit in this verse because in the next verse he said: 23 Not only that, but we also who have the first-fruits of the Spirit.

163 So now that we know the creation from Romans 8:21-22 was in fact the whole creation and not just part of it, we can see that the creation was like a woman who was going to suffers the pains of childbirth to a new creation. 164 The way to help us see this is with the new believe in Christ becoming born again. 165 Once that happened they were considered by God as a new creation and all things were made new for them individually. 166 But here in Romans 8:21-22 we see the whole creation was going to be be brought forth all at once as the antitype to when Israel become a nation in one day after the Babylon captivity.

Isaiah 66:8 “Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?
Can a land be born in one day?
Can a nation be brought forth all at once?
As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.

167 How this happened in AD70 the new creation was re-created in a Spiritual way in the unseen realm similar to someone being born again. 168 From that point on God looks at the new creation though still physically the same, he see it in a new way like what happened to the new born believer in Christ. 169 They have Christ righteousness imputed unto them and God see them as if seeing His Son. 170 The New Creation began with a new start in life as if it never was part of the old creation of corruption, but because their was no physical change with a literal destruction of the universe people failed to see it. 171 However in God’s mind He has always seen it this way since the Old Covenant Age ended in AD70. 172 It does not matter if people think or believe it, all that matters is what God has done with His newly created Heaven and Earth that its foundation is with the New Covenant. 173 God works around our ignorance and still loves us but we have a responsibility to listen to Him and hear what His Spirit is saying if we can hear that. 174 There are many obstacles that can get in the way and many of those things are by hearing what other people have to say either in person or in what they may write. 175 Denominational barriers and beliefs can be a stronghold on someones mind, so as to making it impossible for them to hear what the Spirit is saying.

176 If we can understand what the born again experience is for the new believer in Christ then we can see that as a forerunner for the whole creation where God mades all things new with a reset for the New Heaven and Earth.

The Adoption the Whole Creation was Waiting for:

177 The main focus on re-evaluating things should be on what things the first century Church did not have and that was their Redemptive body. Romans 8:23 says they were waiting for the adoption and the redemption of their body.

Romans 8:23Not only that, but we also who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

178 Both of these things need re-evaluating because the first century Church were already adopted as children of God, but the rest of creation was still waiting eagerly for their adoption as well as the first century Church was also waiting for the world to be adopted. 179 Special note here that when the whole creation got adopted it does not mean they all go to heaven and are saved. 180 All that means is that Jesus Christ adopted them from Adam. 181 Back in Genesis 6 God destroyed the Sons of God in the great flood because they became violent, but God saved Noah and his family because Noah knew God, this should serve as an example for the Sons of God that were revealed in AD70.

182 Adam not longer was the father of mankind after the New Creation began in AD70. 183 That also means all those who were born after AD70 did not need to be adopted, because they as well as us today are born as Offspring of Jesus Christ. 184 So we all start out in life in a reset, similar way that Adam did when he was created and before Adam sinned. 185 Complete personal salvation and full redemption of creation from the Age of Corruption of Adam’s sin and death happened in AD70 when death was cast into the Lake of Fire. 186 The whole creation was adopted by Jesus Christ who became the Spiritual Everlasting Father to the world. 187 Everyone born after that are the Spiritual Offspring of the Everlasting Father and the Mother who is the first century first fruits who had the Spirit.

188 We can see that the first century saints were already adopted by faith in Jesus Christ yet they were eagerly waiting for the rest of creation to be adopted when the Grand Ultimate Jubilee came giving the whole creation a fresh start in life in the regeneration.

Romans 8:13For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

Galatians 3:25But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:5to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

189 We begin life filled with the Holy Spirit and are Spiritual alive until we otherwise fall away like the Prodigal Son. 190 Those who were worthy attained immortal life, those not worth would have trampled on the precious blood of Christ. 191 There are so many different factors that come into play here but by the grace and love of God that He has brought mankind to such a place of full redemption but only those found worthy receive immortal life.

The Redemptive Body the Whole Creation was Waiting for:

192 The other thing that the whole creation and the First Fruits who had the Spirit were eagerly waiting for in Romans 8:21-23 was their redemptive Spiritual body that God had in reserve for them for the afterlife.

Romans 8:21because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and labours with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

193 All the saints had to look forward to back in the old Age was death in Hades as a disembodied soul until they were resurrected into their Spiritual bodies. 194 No one has to wait for that now post AD70. 195 Our relationship with God continues on a higher level where we do not sleep in the dust of the Earth waiting for it. 196 After physical death our Spirit returns to God and carries on in the afterlife right away with a Spiritual body God prepared for us. 197 It is in this hope we are saved, and we do not have to be concerned with becoming disembodied souls in Hades waiting for the resurrection like our Futurist brothers and sister are; yet some how they at the same time believe absent from the body means present with the Lord. 198 Sounds confusing because they do not believe that the resurrection took place because they were resurrected with a Spiritual body but they believe the resurrection can only happen with physical bodies being resurrected. 199 No one has to wait anymore for their redemptive body that God had prepared for us as a Spiritual Individual body different and unique from anyone else. 200 Yet at the same time we can enjoy being one with Christ, like He was one with His Father according to John 17.

Romans 8:24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

201 There are Hyper-Preterist that believe that the redemptive body that they were waiting for was the collective body of Christ, being risen like a loaf of bread instead of a field of individual grains of wheat. 202 However there is one point they avoid the redemption of our individual body will people have in the afterlife.

203 While Collective Body View CBV taking the view that the first century Church was eagerly waiting for the redemption of the body of Christ as if Romans 8:23 was the body of Christ, is overlooking the fact that they already were the body of Christ. 204 There was to be a consummation of being the body of Christ at the marriage of the Lamb but they already were one with Him in the communion of the body of Christ. However the marriage of the Lamb was not the resurrection.

John 6:55For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

1 Corinthians 10:15I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17For we, though many, are one bread and one body; for we all partake of that one bread.

1 Corinthians 12:4For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.

205 The CBV believe that forgiveness and redemption came in AD70, but forgiveness and redemption was already there for the First Fruits who had the Spirit, it was the redemptive body that they were waiting for, they already had Spiritual redemption:

Ephesians 1:7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.

Hebrews 9:12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

206 Redemption of the body for the afterlife was for the resurrection with a Spiritual body:

1 Corinthians 15:42So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43It is sown in dishonour, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Luke 21:27Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Ephesians 1:13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Colossians 1:13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

207 Edward E. Stevens has written so many good articles about more of what the CBV believe in, and I also have a few which reveals how far off track the CBV takes their view away from the traditional beliefs of Christianity when it comes to the blood Jesus shed and for what purpose. 208 You can ask me for them if you want to read them. 209 The CBV and the Covenant Creation View has a Church Only View of Romans 8:18-25 whereas this article is a worldview of the New Glorious Creation.

What Does Redemption Mean…?

210 The first time redemption is mentioned in the Bible it is in Leviticus 25 and deals with 50th Year of Jubilee. 211 The word redemption mention in Leviticus 25 speaks of property but reading the whole chapter of Leviticus 25 will give you a better idea of what redemption was about. 212 In this case on Romans 8:23 it is referring to the kind of body Adam would have changed into without tasting physical death if he did not sin. 213 Adam would have had a Spiritual body and gone right into Heaven and continued his fellowship with God like Enoch, Jesus and those raptured in AD66. 214 Instead Adam returned to the dust of the Earth and became a disembodied soul in Hades who had to wait thousands of years to be resurrected into his Spiritual body that would have been immortal that God had reserved for him at an appointed time when his life on Earth was done. 215 Many believe that Adam would have had a physical immoral body for the afterlife, but I do not believe that is what was intended for us to have. 216 The ramifications of that and every creature God created or was born would have physical bodies floating around in the universe is beyond reality and the Earth would be severely over populated.

217 Jesus foretold full redemption would come at His coming in a cloud with power and great glory in: Luke 21:27Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

218 The first century saints already had redemption through the blood Jesus shed for them and they were delivered from the power of darkness and conveyed into the kingdom of the Son but their was still more to come. 219 According to Galatians 3:13 they were redeemed from the curse of the law. 220 It is important to realize no one has been under the 613 laws of the Old Covenant for almost 2000 years. 221 Therefore to the amaze of those who do not believe all scriptures written were fulfilled, they twist Luke 21:22 meaning only the days of vengeance and fail to see all scriptures written, therefore do not believe Romans 8:18-23 has being fulfilled in AD70.

Galatians 3:12Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Luke 21:22For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

222 Flesh and blood could not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven so they had to wait to be resurrected into their Spiritual body that would be immortal, that God had reserved for them at the time of being changed at the coming of the Lord. 223 They did not have to physical die to get it, all they needed was for God to miraculously change them within a twinkling of an eye according to:

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Colossians 1:13 was a fore taste of what happened to the first century saints that would happen to all of creation that Romans 8:20-22 speaks of.

Colossians 1:13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

224 Andy Hauter as well as all who have a Futurist view have this one thing right: The kingdom of God has a clear goal: the reclamation of the nations and a restoration on a global scale.

225 The only thing missing with this is that it no longer remains as a goal because it was accomplished in AD70 in the unseen Spiritual ream. 226 The Futurist fail to apply Romans 8:24-25 to it because we still have to physical die to get our Spiritual body, but at least it is there waiting for us what God has prepared for us, so other than that everything that was written was fulfilled.

Romans 8:24For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

227 Andy Hauter said “Quote”: So we see in these 3 passages they explicitly contradict the notion of the sons of God as human. These are God’s assembly in the heavens, not on earth. The language is unmistakable.

Job 38:4-7 “Where were you at my laying the foundation of the earth? ….

when the morning stars were singing together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

Psalms 82

God has taken his place in the divine council;

in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: …

I said, “You are gods,

sons of the Most High, all of you;

nevertheless, like men you shall die,

and fall like any prince.”

Psalms 89:5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,

your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!

For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?

Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,

a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones,

and awesome above all who are around him?

So now that we’ve established who the sons of God are, let’s go back to:

Rom 8:19: “For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God.”

“End Quote”

228 But are the Sons of God really God’s assembly in the heavens, not on earth. 229 I’ve already shown a reasonable amount of doubt that they were God’s assembly in the heavens, not on earth. 230 So let’s look at the last one Psalms 89:5 and see where that takes us as we read down the chapter as see how it related to Psalms 82 where they die like men.

Psalm 89:47 Remember how short my time is;
For what futility have You created all the children of men?

48 What man can live and not see death?
Can he deliver his life from the power of the grave? Selah

Psalm 82:6 I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.7 “Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.”8 Arise, O God, judge the earth!
For it is You who possesses all the nations.

Jeremiah 2:11Has a nation changed its gods,
Which are not gods?
But My people have changed their Glory
For what does not profit.

Genesis 3:5 For God knows that on the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing good and evil.”

Genesis 3:5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

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